NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: Orkulus!! 11/21/09]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

By Deceiver_0 Posted October 29, 2009 03:11:19

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

- Single Phase lane starts

- No connected Asteroids

- Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire

Other-

SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat
Top Vasari Cykur

Nay-

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

Decrease hp/shields?

Yay-

Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur

Decrease DPS?

Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye

Nay- Cykur

Increase Cost/supply?

Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon

Nay- DirtySanchezz

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz

Balance Scouts-

Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari

Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile

Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat
Greyfox2

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                   Cykur

Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat
CallenExile 52500

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2

Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz

Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3
CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2

Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat
Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari

Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur

No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0        Darvin3 52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2    Raging Amish
CallenExile Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike

Nay-

Decrease Supply cost?

Yay- Raging Amish

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye    JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike

Decrease Resource cost?

Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz

Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3           52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician    Top Vasari           Howdidudothat
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2    Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile Mindseye          JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike

Nay-

No Change Needed-

0 Karma 181 Replies 3 Referrals

Deceiver_0, ur at it again eh......

btw, phasic trap lvl 2 is not a bug.....the range gets increased by 1000 and duration by 15 secs........so unless u have money to spare, the 2nd upgrade can be held of for a while...

ovi, it's a confirmed bug. Only one level is recognized according to the game files.

Yeah, the range and duration remain the same before and after the research.

Here is a little, little, little bug! [e digicons][/e] (the hole in the kol)

And this graphic bug on the kortul!

Another autocast bug:

The Sikrantra autocasts Scramble Bombers when strikecraft launch is disabled.

Related AI bug:

The AI does not recognize this limitation either and does not retreat defenseless carriers. For example, if the AI has a few undefended carriers in a "strikecraft launch disabled" grav well, you can send in one scout to kill them all.

Does that effect all AI difficulties? becuase I know that the easy AIs are absolutley stupid, and normal isnt that much better.

Thanks, Deceiver:

On a previous post, I requested that the next SOASE/Entrenchment patch include an option to toggle off AI surrender. Sometimes, he just gives up too darn easy. Not sure if this fits into what you're looking to put together, but if it does I'd sure appreciate you including it.

That sounds good, but the reason why the AI surrenders in the first place is because the "mop-up" stage in SP was very boring.

Also, Space Egg colonise needs to be brought into line with the other races. Its unfair giving the Vasari overpriced ships AND a major eco disadvantage. Vasari scouts, assailants and sentinels need to get looked at.

Does that effect all AI difficulties? becuase I know that the easy AIs are absolutley stupid, and normal isnt that much better.

Even unfair doesn't recognize magnetic storms (or plasma?) as a place they shouldn't send carriers. The tactic of making a starbase there to protect a free extractor will inevitably end with a giant slaughter. Usually over and over again.

And "scramble bombers" is an ability, so maybe that's why it still happens.

ok quick bug i noticed. i dont know if it was mentioned before or if it even a bug or some special feature. However at certain times in different games i noticed my ships Vasari and the AI ships Tec make inter grav well phase jumps from the middle to the edge of the grav well. i think it first occured when i cancelled the jump order of two ships trying to jump to my fleet on another planet.

I think it's a bug. It happens to me too, but I haven't been cancelling any orders. It's really annoying when you're in a well that has a starbase in it (since the game registers the ship as leaving the well, and doest the SB damage thingy to it).

Thanks for starting up another post.

something that bothers me is that whenever a scout leaves a grav well that had a starbase in it, and it arrives at the next planet, I hear a message saying that a ship is being attacked. Then I go and check on it, and it's just a scout that had phase destabilization. No attack. Maybe that's not a bug, but I think it would be nice to have that fixed.

Thanks Deceiver!

What about the random map generator that attaches one GW to another with a phase lane the goes stright up from the middle. Nothing can make that jump so whatever is trying just keeps ping ponging back and forth in the GW.

Unnerf ninja sentiel nerf. Vasa r already screwed enough.

There's also the meson bolt typo on the Entrenchment upgrade tree...

It has been suggested that the autocast on Reintegration might be reworked to operate at higher ship health levels, as it's not useful to have it begin at very low levels. Perhaps 50-60% health? If the ship isn't part of a group, its very much easier to have auto off.

If there is an Entrenchment Z-axis problem with starbases I trust that this will be fixed, and not left to an informal honour system, though it is possibly not a hotfix issue.

However, of all the bugs, the Illuminator bug was the one created by the v1.18 balance patch itself, and the dps of a main unit like LRF is a major issue. Its the only bug that demands a hotfix. The bug has already been identified, it's easy to correct and has a large impact on gameplay. Impulse for patches was advertised as being especially for this sort of issue. Where is the Illuminator hotfix?

I have nagging feeling beta for deplomacy will be out first which may fix the problem, then a hot fix for previous versions.

I have the same feeling.

Howdidudothat

reply 24

Has no one mentioned pathing?

It seems the pathing of ships got worse after v1.01 entrenchment. If you give a group of ships an order, they all rearrange to jump out in some "musical" chairs sort of way. It's really stupid, annoying, and more micro intensive than it should be to get multiple ships to jump out as quickly as possible.

Pathing gets me down sometimes. I hate it when I give a move order to a group of ships, and I see the line for the path they intend to take, and then I check back later and some of them took another path instead. This is especially bad when that "other" path is through the pirate base. I have had it happen where most of the fleet follows the intended course, but for some reason ...say....the light frigates ...decide it would be better to take a shortcut through the pirate base.

Skirmishers:

yay for dps increase
nay for command decrease
nay for cost decrease
yay for autocast AI

Skirmishers:

yay for dps increase
nay for command decrease
yay for cost decrease (very slight)
yay for autocast AI

Vas Scouts (though it wasn't asked yet)

yay for dps increase
yay for command decrease
nay for cost decrease

Though Ironclad may be a small team, it has to be disappointing for JJ to make the effort to identify a concealed and vital bug for them and then for them not to make a necessary one-word change. It goes against all the reasons that were advanced for Impulse being used as the method of patch delivery. Also, it means that all the balance tests of this version will have to be treated as bugged. I was encouraged by the apparent existence of an illuminator balance patch to start to become involved in a community mappack- which might become equally important to balance. However, to have a serious bug in v1.18 that further buffs illuminators has dampened my enthusiasm.

I don't believe that Cobalts and Disciples are delivering- I don't want an LRF centred game and for me all light frigates are still too expensive in terms of supply and possibly cost to perform their functions later in the game. So for the Skirmisher all my votes are supportive of change. I'd like the supply on the Cobalt and Disciple lowered a point as well. I'd also like turret costs to be very heavily decreased to allow the possibility to prevent very early rushes, when these are spotted.

I'd also like turret costs to be very heavily decreased to allow the possibility to prevent very early rushes, when these are spotted.

Turrets are too much of a gamble, I don't think that reducing their cost would be terribly effective in making them more useful in MP. They are too easily overwhelmed or outranged. The bonuses they get in the entrenchment tech tree are ok, but often disregarded as people just don't bother with them. Personally I might consider using them more if they did a small area of splash damage to help handle the masses of weaker units often found in a rush, because lets face it, they're meant to protect structures, but they do a rather poor job of it.

P.S.

So Yay for all skirmisher topics?

Skirmishers:

* yay for dps increase
* nay for command decrease
* nay for cost decrease

Vas Scouts (though it wasn't asked yet)

* nay for dps increase
* yay for command decrease
* nay for cost decreas

Skirmishers:

+ Yay on dps increase

- Nay on command decrease

- Nay for cost decrease

+ Yay for Reintegration autocast AI improvement

I'll come back to scouts when/if they're posted.