NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: Orkulus!! 11/21/09]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

By Deceiver_0 Posted October 29, 2009 03:11:19

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

- Single Phase lane starts

- No connected Asteroids

- Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye

Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur

Other-

SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

Yay-

Nay-

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

Decrease hp/shields?

Yay-

Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur

Decrease DPS?

Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye

Nay- Cykur

Increase Cost/supply?

Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon

Nay- DirtySanchezz

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz

Balance Scouts-

Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari

Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile

Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat
Greyfox2

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                   Cykur

Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat
CallenExile 52500

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2

Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz

Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3
CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2

Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat
Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari

Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur

No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0        Darvin3 52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2    Raging Amish
CallenExile Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike

Nay-

Decrease Supply cost?

Yay- Raging Amish

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye    JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike

Decrease Resource cost?

Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz

Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3           52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician    Top Vasari           Howdidudothat
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2    Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile Mindseye          JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike

Nay-

No Change Needed-

0 Karma 179 Replies 3 Referrals

As for bugs, Charged Missiles for the sentinel doesn't work on frigates anymore.

There are a few minor balance issues. Skirmishers don't do enough damage and assailants (already signicantly weaker then other LRFs) were effectively nerfed because LFs got buffed. Vasari scouts could arguably get a damage boost also.

Nice post deciever.Be Nice to see a warning when someone starts to build a sb on your world.

PHASIC TRAP LEVEL 2 still does not work...

JuleTron

reply 1

As for bugs, Charged Missiles for the sentinel doesn't work on frigates anymore.

from what I was led to understand (by Blair himself) the Charged Missiles for the sentinel was only supposed to work for SC only so I dont think this is a bug

How about the fact that the Dunov icon is still backwards?

YES! PLEASE FIX THIS!!!! lol

phase gates take time to register

Yes but the same could be said for all LRFs with the LF boost. Bottom line is LRFs still do the same amount of damage to all other types of ship, they just cant rip through light frigs quite as fast as they could. I do agree with your skirmisher comments.

Be Nice to see a warning when someone starts to build a sb on your world.

I don't think that falls under the area of bugs. I don't think there should be a "Starbase is under construction at one of our planets" warning, however, I think the "Hostile forces are inbound" warning that you get after researching the phase lane monitoring techs should apply to starbase construction vehicles. This way, a cunning Vasari can still sneak a starbase in on a player without these techs, but may have a much harder time (though not an impossible one) against players who have researched them. Also these tech would make it increasingly difficult to sneak a starbase further and further into your empire, as that warning will sound everytime the migrator jumps between planets you control, making it less and less likely a migrator will go unnoticed the further it gets. If these minor changes occured, Im sure more players would use those techs. What do you think about that? Seems fair to me.

How about the fact that the Dunov icon is still backwards?

Prove to me thats a Bug and Ill put it up, how can you be sure the DEVs hadnt meant it to be that way?

phase gates take time to register

Explain this to me in more detail, or let me test it out.

For balance issues, Illuminators need a slight HP nerf. They're almost completely balanced, but Illuminators are still dominating in Advent fleets, and massing them is still more effective than bringing out Crusaders. And Ravastra Skirmishers need a damage boost. ^_^

My thoughts are once the illuminators "mystery damage" bug is resolved, illuminators will be right where they belong.

For insight into that bug check out JohnJames's post on it:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/367162

Nevermind then. I forgot about that topic. Thanks. ^_^

How about the fact that the Dunov icon is still backwards?

Prove to me thats a Bug and Ill put it up, how can you be sure the DEVs hadnt meant it to be that way?

I'm going to say that because all other icon face the same direction as the ship, the Dunov's not facing the same direction is a bug. And for what possible reason would they want the Dunov to face backwards but all the other face forwards?[e digicons][/e]

Maybe the Dunov just likes being contrary?

Snotty damn Dunov.

There's the possible Kol graphics glitch....? I also had a bug where constructors on one planet froze and nothing would be built there, if it happens again I'll send the replay report.

Though perhaps not a bug for a hotfix- and the illuminator bug merits a hotfix, its very disappointing to have a balance patch that has enhanced illuminators- I'd like the returning fleets to be revised, as I don't consider them to have been modified correctly.

The problem isn't that the fleets aren't valuable in terms of resources, its that its fiddly to have small groups of ships at a stage of play when you already have enough to do. That has deterred me from making the rather heavy investment. It might be improved by one of two methods:

i. Consider all phase gates to be the same for purposes of cooldown, grant the fleets free to compensate- this would be effective for combat reinforcements.

ii. The fleet trickles back a ship at a time- still free- rather than in groups. Gates have individual cooldowns. If the advantage is xyz resources why not just have the fleet restricted to that size or slightly smaller? This would be more effective as economic compensation.

I'd prefer this second option. If the original problem with the returning fleets was that their size unbalanced the game, why not just make them smaller? The Advent and TEC top level economic advantages require nothing like the same degree of organisation.

from what I was led to understand (by Blair himself) the Charged Missiles for the sentinel was only supposed to work for SC only so I dont think this is a bug

Well the sentinel's CM should work on frigates as it helped when fighting illums.

JuleTron

reply 16

from what I was led to understand (by Blair himself) the Charged Missiles for the sentinel was only supposed to work for SC only so I dont think this is a bug
Well the sentinel's CM should work on frigates as it helped when fighting illums.

It was a stealth nerf. It did affect all ships before, but now sc. Funny thing though it activates when fighting all ships but damage isnt applied.

-Ue_Carbon

reply 6

How about the fact that the Dunov icon is still backwards?

YES! PLEASE FIX THIS!!!! lol

oh man, i thought it was just me... glad to know im not going crazy!

and as for returning armada... why not set a rally point or have one phase gate act as primary and have ships trickle in from all the gates (each with its own cool down) and rally at the rally point or primary gate?

alternatively, why not have the option to set the gate to "stand-by mode' or something, in where new ships 'arrive' once the ability is activated, but dont enter your space and dont cost fleet resources, then, when you need an emergency fleet or reinforcements, have the nearest gate call in the pooling ships and have a ready made fleet ready on demand?

Ok I could live with this if it was a unique warning for a sb constructor.Vas sb constructs so fast if your fleet is 3-4 jumps away you never kill it before it constructs requiring you to build a 2nd fleet IF you can in time to kill it before it builds.There should be an am requirement to cast the build too so a person has a chance of killing the migrator before it starts building.Less cunning and more cheapshot if you ask me.To be able to keep an eye on your back planets while your fighting can be tough especially if its a close battle.

I would just like to have RA have a rally point period. I'll be building a fleet la de da, and whoops I am out of capacity. "where are the rest of my ships?" i will most likely say to myself, my gf will look at me like i am crazy. "oh there they are, miles and miles away." I'll say. She'll scoot a little further away, trying to get in range of the knife drawer (just in case). Then while I am waiting for these ships to arrive (whilst simulateously trying to calm her down) I will get attacked by a fleet or two. "damnation!" i will exclaim. Someone will call the police to report a domestic disturbance.

end game.

See? A rally point would save me from having to deal with police.

Just saying.

Ok, so I see RA seems to be a popular issue, perhaps thats where I'll start the stat changes section. In the mean time, anything else that falls under the bugs heading let me know.

Oh and Mindseye,

My guess is that the Devs are going to be pretty busy with Diplomacy, and probably too busy to add in new features in a patch, so your unique warning idea will have to probably wait until then. In the meantime, just making sb constructors trigger the alarm when that tech is resarched will have a positive impact. As for AM requirements, in the PSCF from the previous patch I avoided the topic of the Vasari SB like the plague for the simple fact that it is so different from the other SBs and Assault Cruisers that its impossible to balance it comparative to them. Also because Vasari players think theyre highly unreliable, and TEC and Advent players think theyre OP, and Im inclined to agree with both sides of the arguement. If changes are to be made, no doubt it will be a nerf and buff. I may try and tackle the issue with this thread, but I'll have to do some serious spec research on the thing to separate facts from exaggerations.

If you're going to research starbase issues you might also want to examine the reported 'death from above' issue. where there is claimed to be a z-axis blind spot.

If a starbase is used as an offensive weapon, isn't it then limited by being unable to leave the grav well, whereas anti-structure ships can? If a player wouldn't have otherwise put a starbase there, that seems to cost a great deal of resources?

However, I'm pleased that the factions have become more different in the expansion, I hope that will continue in the next one, along with bonuses for similar factions on the same team. What the game might be able to use is some sort of tide-turning new feature... perhaps the Advent could turn all their temples into holy warships at once, with minimal economic penalties for scrapping, that sort of concept... I suppose the next full balance patch will be after the beta, making a hotfix for the illuminators and autocast issues more vital.

Well my original thought is its mostly op in early game when a vas can planet a sb down before you can roll out your first ilum.So my idea was have enemy grav well build times longer and then the tec that allows you to build them faster be higher.That way early game and later game will be balanced.Easily done in a patch.

Has no one mentioned pathing?

It seems the pathing of ships got worse after v1.01 entrenchment. If you give a group of ships an order, they all rearrange to jump out in some "musical" chairs sort of way. It's really stupid, annoying, and more micro intensive than it should be to get multiple ships to jump out as quickly as possible.

100% Agree with how.Especially for cap ships.They go out of their way to run into things.