How US politics works » Forum Post by Mumblefratz

I just thought it interesting that FOX was more willing to say positive things about Obama and negative things about McCain than MSNBC was the reverse.

If you're trying to imply that this means MSNBC is further to the left than FOX is to the right then I'd have to disagree. Mainly because of the fact that they made three separate comparisons in regard to Obama, McCain and Palin and I had no idea how to weight them. Plus the fact that each of these individuals *are* individuals and not perfect representatives of their respective side.

All in all I'm fine with the conclusion that MSNBC is biased to the left and FOX is biased to the right and the MSM is pretty much balanced. Anything beyond that I wouldn't stipulate.

I admire the sentiment, but consider the lack of basic rules for political parties to be perhaps the single greatest flaw in the Constitution.

I never thought about this before but yeah the lack of any definition of how political parties were supposed to work is a major shortcomming.

lambdaman

reply 275

Quoting Mumblefratz,
reply 266

I believe two parties are sufficient as long as *both* parties are not bought and sold by lobbyists but that even 5 parties wouldn’t be enough if this was not changed because all 5 would simply be bought and paid for.

I tend to think that a system that allowed more viable parties would itself act as a check on the lobbyists. It would force them to dilute their targets a bit more, but more importantly, if it was possible to start a new party and actually win seats, the threat would keep the major parties more honest than they are. Right now the way we elect politicians basically ensures a duopoly on power, and both major parties know that; they also know that as a consequence, they can almost completely ignore the electorate except for a few token gestures, because who else are we going to vote for?

I don't really expect this to ever change, though. The people who would have to change it are the same people who benefit from keeping things the way they are, so we're pretty much stuck with the dysfunctional system we've got.

Indeed, it would take structural (meaning Constitutional) changes to make any difference, and no amount of campaign finance reform is going to matter until it is changed. One of the things Illinois has done right is a Constitutional requirement that a referendum take place every 20 years on whether to scrap it and write a new one.

If you're trying to imply that this means MSNBC is further to the left than FOX is to the right then I'd have to disagree. Mainly because of the fact that they made three separate comparisons in regard to Obama, McCain and Palin and I had no idea how to weight them. Plus the fact that each of these individuals *are* individuals and not perfect representatives of their respective side.

I wasn't really intending to say that one is more extreme than the other, just that one is more willing to be blatant about it.

Mumblefratz

reply 272

Regardless of your opinion turns out Al Franken is a credible politician. Here's another Fraken video to prove it. And if you can't acknowledge that then it's you that should recuse yourself from all future political discussion.

You must be trolling, sir.

It's my thread. If anyone is trolling it's you. Keep it up and see where it get's you.

Mumblefratz

reply 279

It's my thread. If anyone is trolling it's you. Keep it up and see where it get's you.

You threaten me for dismissing your absurd suggestion that Al Franken is a respectable Senator? Your mind is clouded or you are unfamiliar with Mr. Franken's past.

Cool.

You threaten me for dismissing your absurd suggestion that Al Franken is a respectable Senator? Your mind is clouded or you are unfamiliar with Mr. Franken's past.

Did you listen to the video of him at the fair?

That was not without political skill but also delivered with what appeared to me to be all honesty, candor and with respect for opinions with which he didn't necessarily agree. To me these are all qualities of a respectable senator.

And assuming your listed age is anything near correct I have far more personal experience with Mr. Franken's past than you.

But you are indeed correct in that I am threatening you. You can disagree with me all you want but you need to reduce the level of animosity and/or ridicule from your replies or you won't be making any more in any thread of mine.

Mumblefratz

reply 276

I admire the sentiment, but consider the lack of basic rules for political parties to be perhaps the single greatest flaw in the Constitution.I never thought about this before but yeah the lack of any definition of how political parties were supposed to work is a major shortcomming.

Thats the thing, lolz. They didn't want federal political parties, or lobby-groups for that matter. It kinda reminds me of the car, how odd, no? But when Ford really started production back in the day, he intended it to be used w/ ethanol or hemp-fuel. Needless to say, the politics of the time led to a very different fuel source which has presented some major issues in this day and age. So if there weren't lobby groups and parties with huge personal interests we wouldn't be facing this artificial dependency on oil. And the food/farmer problems would be much less obvious as we'd have another cash crop in production; and one that could add to grain production as well, which is so crucial to any economy.

They (being the bush era) acted like they tried a step of this step with the whole corn debacle that messed up farmers and the food market big time... thing is corn isn't the crop intended for these purposes. Ideally it should be a mixed production; a large part of which was meant to be hemp. As hemp has ten times the yield in ethanol vs. corn. It doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything about it yet though.

As I understand it, hemp can produce 9-11 tons of biomass per acre every four months. These numbers could show at least a 10-15% increase through proper breading and manipulation. Which would currently frowned upon greatly, haha. But energy produced on 6% of the land in the U.S. Could provide enough energy (excluding Texas, cause they'd never do it,) for our entire country. And that 6% of land could easily come from fallow farm land. Hemp doesn't ruin the soil, and acts as a natural repellent to insects. Our active to fallow ratio is at about 1 to five, pretty shoddy numbers.

to summarize the tale of “two things that weren't intended to happen. happening”, :

Large political parties and powerful lobby groups not intended for country.

Biomass fuel source intended for cars as well as industrial production (which I didn't really go into, as it is fairly obvious in and of itself.)

Yet the biomass/natural fuels are not used thanks to lobby groups and corrupt politicians. Now the planet may very well be melting, lol. Double meaning there. And we point the finger at other politically viewed people; too bad most people hate history and science and math and shite, isn't it? We forget all of these important things that happened a long time ago which actually just might have to do with whats going on today, lolz.

Politicians win, make a killing, and we're still arguing all these years later. Ha ha.

If the large political parties and powerful lobby groups (which weren't really intended in the first place,) Hadn't been there to mess with things, we wouldn't be in this jam.

(And hemp isn't psychedelic pot, to whomever may be thinking of that as ill-contrived troll bait.)

(And I swear to god if some says “Oh, but the other crop values will suffer” then please, realize that you can't argue against the numbers. They are real.)

Here's another thing to think about; hemp can provide a biodegradeable plastic. Rofl.

Mumblefratz

reply 281

And assuming your listed age is anything near correct I have far more personal experience with Mr. Franken's past than you.

But you are indeed correct in that I am threatening you. You can disagree with me all you want but need to reduce the level of animosity and/or ridicule from your replies or you won't be making any more in any thread of mine.

Ah, the age argument. Brilliant retort, sir. Your years must grant you great wisdom.

Sic semper tyrannis.

Ah, the age argument. Brilliant retort, sir. Your years must grant you great wisdom.

Sic semper tyrannis.

OK. enough. Bye.

LOL, the great freedom of speech blocker button. Here you have it folks, give a Democrat, a Liberal or their defenders a hard time without insulting them and they will quickly take away your freedom to express yourself and contradict them. Euqality and fairness? Only if you agree with them.

Great job Mumble. I'm surprised you have not added me to your blacklist.

I can if you wish but so far you've yet to cross the somewhat arbitrary line.

Basically there's simply no talking to some folks. If someone is going to insist black is white and up is down there's not much point continuing.

If you can make your point and at least make some vague effort to respond to my points then fine otherwise I'm too old to want to deal with someone whose only goal is to be as disruptive as possible.

The other thing that is going on here about which most people are not fully aware is the fact that I don't particularly care for the Joe User site. I predominately visit the GalCiv2 site which used to be a wonderful site but these days has essentially devolved (like a number of other SD sites) into the Off-topic/Impulse site.

If I could I would post these threads to a forum that does not even exist on Joe User. But unfortunately there really is no reasonable alternative forum as these kinds of threads certainly do not belong in the Dark Avatar forum.

The thing is that these types of threads are not particularly encouraged in the Off-topic forum but in general they are tolerated as long as they maintain a certain level of civility. See the sticky post http://forums.galciv2.com/132685.

So I need to self-regulate these threads so that they don't cross some invisible threshold and thereby get relegated to the JU politics forum. If that were to happen I would simply delete the entire thread as I have no interest in continuing the conversation over there.

The fact that a few folks from JU happen to cross post here is OK given I really have no choice but I'm not shy about using my blacklist as I have no great interest in being able to reply to threads originating over on JU.

I can if you wish but so far you've yet to cross the somewhat arbitrary line.

To be honest I am surprised I haven't, still I don't think I do or say enough to be blacklisted but considering what you did above, I'm still surprised.

Basically there's simply no talking to some folks. If someone is going to insist black is white and up is down there's not much point continuing.

Ah, but this would be correct if the argument was Black and White; however it isn't. When there are opinions and little facts you can not claim any argument to be Black and White, that is why there are shades of grey. There is always a way to talk to some people; you simply need to learn, first of all, to accept that your opinions are not absolute. Posting an opinion to a blog or forums is a call to others to either agree or disagree. If you have issues with people who disagree and lack the skills to discuss, debate and argue you point against them, then mauybe you need to either blog on a site like DU where they don't accept deferring points of view or you need to lock you articles to avoid comments. Otherwise you need to accept that some will not agree and like you who seems to be passionate about how right you are, others will also be just as passionate if not more about their opinions.

If you can make your point and at least make some vague effort to respond to my points then fine otherwise I'm too old to want to deal with someone whose only goal is to be as disruptive as possible.

Fairness seems to have a different meaning to people like you. It's funny how you assume peoples comments that disagree with yours are vague efforts, talk about arrogant. Guess it really does take one to know one. Did you ever consider your comments to be disruptive or are you so far gone you can't even see how alike your comments are to those you criticize and boot? I'm a firm believer that you need to take a good look at yourself before you go around branding people. You claim it's pointless to talk to people who have their minds set but you have generalized stereotipical opinions about some people already even before they post. If anything you are the one who's too hard to talk to when you already think those who disagree with you are too stupid to debate you. No wonder the Democrat Party went around telling people how stupid they were for disagreeing with them townhall meetings.

The other thing that is going on here about which most people are not fully aware is the fact that I don't particularly care for the Joe User site. I predominately visit the GalCiv2 site which used to be a wonderful site but these days has essentially devolved (like a number of other SD sites) into the Off-topic/Impulse site.

If you have issues witha particular section of Stardock, email them and complain about it. But if you are aware of the trans posting that ges on don't complain about the comments. That's like crying for getting burned when you purposely put your hands in the fire. lets also keep in mind that not everyone that comments is from JU, like you said, some of them come from other sections of Stardock so singling the JU crowd is again another generalization, an insulting one at that.

If I could I would post these threads to a forum that does not even exist on Joe User. But unfortunately there really is no reasonable alternative forum as these kinds of threads certainly do not belong in the Dark Avatar forum.

Then maybe you should consider not posting at all. I'll never understand why people complain about what they got yet continue to use it.

So I need to self-regulate these threads so that they don't cross some invisible threshold and thereby get relegated to the JU politics forum. If that were to happen I would simply delete the entire thread as I have no interest in continuing the conversation over there.

The fact that a few folks from JU happen to cross post here is OK given I really have no choice but I'm not shy about using my blacklist as I have no great interest in being able to reply to threads originating over on JU.

Again you complain about something you have no control over yet still use. Why your dislike for people on JU is beyond me, if you are looking for likeminded people I don't know why you post on any of Stardocks forums. Maybe you have this crazy idea that galciv2 players will somehow be like you or Liberal in some way but again generalize and quite often I notice.

My opinion is you need to grow up and stop complaining about your own mistakes. No one is forcing you to use these forums and bitching about them after you post articles is quite childish to say the least for a man your age (according to you).

I started out on JU as a very ignorant person and had my comment back slapped at me several times for not researching before commenting. But here I am, many years later, against all odds still standing my ground not fearing any opposition because I believe in freedom of speech, in peoples right to disagree with me and that the only way to find real solutions to real problems is to get people talking, finding out what others think and looking for some middle ground where a solution can be found and real fairness can be achieved, not this whole "we should all make the same even if we don't all work as hard" BS that runs around places like this.

If you can't take the heat then maybe you need to change that window you look thru for a mirror to find out where the problem really is.

To be honest I am surprised I haven't, still I don't think I do or say enough to be blacklisted but considering what you did above, I'm still surprised.

What I did above was to become tired of dealing with a particular person. No more no less. If you become tiresome then I'll do the same to you. You are certainly free to reciprocate.

Ah, but this would be correct if the argument was Black and White

That's not my point. Of course all arguments are shades of gray. But when I say up and someone says that what I really said meant down then it get's tiresome. If all someone does is to intentionally misstate my opinion then trying to explain otherwise becomes a waste of time and effort.

Did you ever consider your comments to be disruptive or are you so far gone you can't even see how alike your comments are to those you criticize and boot?

It's *my* thread. If I were to come onto *your* thread then you would probably be right to consider many of my comments disruptive. But on *my* thread *my* comments are not disruptive.

No one is required to respond to my threads, I seldom respond in overtly political threads of others particularly those whose sole intent is to bash liberals of which there are many. In general I don't because in fact I have determined that my input is not really wanted in such threads. But I'm fine with that. You folks can have your threads where you denigrate liberals all you want. It's no skin off my back, I don't feel compelled to respond to every perceived slight to liberals. I also realize that there is nothing I can say that will change your minds. But to be truthful most of "your" threads are of the following nature.

Boy aren't liberals stupid.

Yeah, I don't see how they can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Yeah. Me too.

Yeah, Me three.

And then that's about it and the thread sits and collects dust because there's nothing of interest going on. There's no interest because everybody is just agreeing with each other. Why in God's name would I ever want to get involved in such a mutual admiration society.

So when I create an occasional thread specifically placed in a forum on my "home" site, i.e. galciv2, that also happens to appear on the JU site, it provides a level of excitement that otherwise seldom appears there. The excitement comes from the fact that there actually are a few folks willing to express their liberal ideas that you can argue with.

Again I'm OK with that but there are definite limits. When argument merely becomes abuse that's where I draw the line. Yes the judgement may be arbitrary but the thread is mine and the judgement is mine. If you don't like it you're prefectly able to create your own thread on the same or similar subject and see how interesting it turns out.

If you have issues witha particular section of Stardock, email them and complain about it.

I have repeatedly made such requests but it's been made very clear to me that the cross-posting of the Stardock forums is defined at the highest levels and will not change, so I've accepted that. But that still doesn't mean I am required to accept abuse no matter which site from which it comes.

I'm perfectly happy living within the framework of both the explicit and implicit rules of the site which is that political discussion is tolerated in the Off-topic forum only as long as it doesn't become a flame war and thereby offend the sensabilities of people that come to Stardock's game forums specifically to discuss certain games. I'm just doing what I think I need to do to avoid the flame war. If I were to simply post exclusively on Joe User I would be outnumbered by at least 20 to 1 and would have trouble getting a word in edgewise in my own thread unless I pretty much got to the point of blacklisting the entire site.

While I may in fact get to the point of blackisting the entire JU site to me it's not important because JU is *not* my target audience. It would in fact be preferable to me if everyone on JU simply ignored me. But I have no real way of knowing where someone is replying from all I know is whether or not I'm getting abuse when all I was looking for was argument.

Then maybe you should consider not posting at all.

Maybe *you* should consider not posting at all. Why don't you just say "love it or leave it" because that's the same thing.

When and if I step over some invisible line then I'm sure I'll be banned so fast my head would spin. But it's not you that gets to make that decision so until then you'll can either ignore my threads as they scroll by or you can continue to reply in them until you reach the point I feel your replies are more abusive than they are worth.

As it is I think this very issue that you raise *is* of worth, at least so far. Honestly I would prefer *not* to blacklist people but on the other hand I simply *will not* take abuse particularly when the abuser has no real interest in listening to what it is I have to say other than to provide a sound bite or two that they can attack out of context.

So with that bit of unplesantness out of the way we can get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Here's another clip of my favorite Democrat. In fact I'm so impressed with him that I decided to make a rare political contribution of $2,000 to a representative in a state over 1,000 miles away.

"Nixifying the White House? Which should be the proper response to that, Congressman?"

How about admitting it and stopping?

And I now dub this Grayson fool the new McCarthy. Replace Republican with Communist in his sound bites and tell me that wouldn't fit in a 50's Senate hearing.

This guy does seem a few megabytes short of a hard drive, but he's not advocating throwing massive numbers of people in jail or anything like that.

"Nixifying the White House? Which should be the proper response to that, Congressman?"

How about admitting it and stopping?

Nixon defamed people, spied on his rivals, broke into buildings, and wiped massive amounts of vital information out of existance. Obama...... supports policices you don't agree with. Yeah, he's a real criminal mastermind. [e digicons]*_*[/e]

Replace Republican with Communist

You know I never thought of it this way but yeah I can see how one could equate the republican party with communism.

You're right, the republicans *are* the enemy within. Isn't that what they've been saying about Obama? They're precisely right except it is they that are destroying American.

Thanks for the insight.

This guy does seem a few megabytes short of a hard drive, but he's not advocating throwing massive numbers of people in jail or anything like that.

Not yet anyway. Give him time.

Nixon defamed people, spied on his rivals, broke into buildings, and wiped massive amounts of vital information out of existance. Obama...... supports policices you don't agree with. Yeah, he's a real criminal mastermind.

He's had ten months and has already mastered the first. We'll see what the next three years bring.

You're right, the republicans *are* the enemy within. Isn't that what they've been saying about Obama? They're precisely right except it is they that are destroying American.

At worst I may have used the word selfish because it's something that I think on occasion but I actually don't think I've done even that because I do try to make a conscious effort to not demonize my opponent. It can be hard to do sometimes but I do try and avoid it whenever I notice it creeping into my replies.

The demonization is creeping into your posts again.

Not yet anyway. Give him time.

"I know the story was fake. But I'm still going to say it was true because we know Obama thinks it anyway!!!"

-Rush Limbaugh

The demonization is creeping into your posts again.

I actually have to agree here. It may be true, but you really do need to back up your statements more, Mumble.

We all can dream. Mumble likes generalizing the entire Republican Party as the Legion of Doom. It is funny actually, considering the reason the US was so big and powerful ( and still is kinda) is because of Republican policies. It wasn't welfare, free everything that made this country the greatest country in the world, a country Cubans were willing to face the dangerous waters between Cuba and the US to reach, a country Asian people were willing to cram themselves into container ships to reach, a country Mexicans are willing to cross large deserts to enter, a counrty South Americans are willing to reach from such a distance and more than anything, a country the rest of the world always expected to give huge amounts of money when disaster struck somewhere around the world.

Mumble likes generalizing the entire Republican Party as the Legion of Doom.

I was simply parroting precisely what the teabaggers had said about Obama.

They continually used the phase the "enemy within" and implied the threat of what you do about an enemy within. All of this comes straight from the rhetoric of folks like Limbaugh and Beck.

So how is it you recognize insanity but only when coming from your opponents?

It wasn't welfare, free everything that made this country the greatest country in the world

I do believe that past tense is appropriate here. But it's very simple as to how the US became the greatest country in the world. It was because we were a large and unified country as well as the fact that we mobilized and industrialized for WWII and took no damage to our infrastructure as a result. However, the EU threatens to become more unified while the republicans want to retreat into their shell of 50 separate fiefdoms under the umbrella of states rights.

The greatness of this country was a very brief window and was totally because of a strong federal government and also totally because of FDR. We desperately need another FDR. I believe Obama is trying but simply doesn’t have the chops to pull it off.

The last thing we need is another FDR. His policies prolonged the Great Depression, and Obama is repeating similar mistakes. I even have a link.

I even have a link.

Oh you have a link. Well that proves it.

Feel free to stuff your link in an appropriate orifice.

Wow, what a hostile reaction. You bother to even check the link?

SpardaSon21

reply 299

Wow, what a hostile reaction. You bother to even check the link?

Sorry for the hostility and yes I did follow the link but I'm not even going to bother trying to figure out what the motivating biases are for such a study.

If you want to denigrate FDR I'm sure there are many threads where you will find people appreciative of the idea but this particular thread is *not* one of them.