Sick of support from India/Pakistan

"I am not knowing, sahib".

By Mumblefratz Posted June 30, 2009 13:19:50

I tried to call PayPal to figure out why in God’s name they were now requiring a bank account number to “validate” a perfectly good credit card. I don’t think so. No way in hell am I giving anyone my bank account number.

So anyway I end up speaking to Bhagirathy Chattopadhayay or some other such incomprehensible name and she can’t even understand the simplest of questions and can only respond that I should open a PayPal account. Finally after repeating this response to me ten times she realized that I still wasn’t satisfied and said that I could update my “spanding sarces”. What in God’s name is a spanding sarce? I told her that I couldn’t understand her and could she please connect me to someone that spoke English. She reluctantly said she would connect me to a supervisor. While waiting for the supervisor I finally figured out she must have meant spending sources. In the end I gave up waiting for the supervisor. There was little point to it by then. It’s not like I would ever get any kind of satisfactory answer let alone be told how I could open a account without providing bank account information.

Look. I’m sure all of these folks are pleasant, hard working and intelligent. It’s just that they most certainly are not native English speakers and once outside of the litany of the ten most commonly asked questions they have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

Plus I’m sure in this economy that there are Americans throughout the rust belt, Appalachia and many other rural and formerly industrialized parts of the country where you could get the same work done almost as cheaply and it would be far more comprehensible.

So I’ve finally come to the conclusion that I will no longer stand for this kind of support. I will vote the only way that I can which is with my feet.

If this makes me a racist then so be it, I am not knowing.

+124 Karma 59 Replies 6 Referrals

Please do not be being critical of others who are not being here in the U.S. providing support in that most wonderful of languages that is the English language.

[e digicons][/e]

I find myself doing as much support as possible through chat or email. It provides a good log of what transpired and is easier to describe the problem to anyone no matter the language barriers.

I disagree about Americans taking the jobs and doing them well. The amount of work for the price that people outside the US will do is oftentimes amazing and because Americans demand savings, businesses have to deliver them where they can. Support is a great place to start.

I worked for a very large oil company a few years ago (as a contractor) adn they were very open in that they could cut the quality of support or lay people off. Employees could suck it up. So they went to a knowledge base on-line and support in Mexico . . and people got by and fed their kids.

I'm sick of bad support, period. The focus on most support these days isn't actual support or customer satisfaction, it's on getting rid of you as fast as possible.

All part of the "short term profit at any cost" mentality that companies have these days. It'll lead them to ruin in the end.

It’s just that they most certainly are not native English speakers

Even native English speakers can be hard to understand. Sometimes for me (used to the west coast accent), talking to someone from Georgia or the Carolina's is similar to speaking with someone from another country. Amusing (usually), but it can be frustrating.

Zubaz-

Wouldn't it simply be better to cut down in other areas, such as marketing, in order to provide better customer support? Wouldn't word of mouth about an excellent product with even better customer service be more condusive to your business, rather than expensive marketing?

I can think of so many companies that have excellent adds, or marketing techniques, and horrible customer service. While the marketing does get people in, it doesn't keep them, or build a loyal customer base. I would think that marketing would be secondary to excellent costumer service.

Perhaps I am old-fashioned in my thinking though.

Wouldn't it simply be better to cut down in other areas, such as marketing, in order to provide better customer support?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The company I was with was making the transition to near-shore internally so it's not exactly the same.

But no, in fact new customers generate more revenue than existing and therefore marketing is critical to keep momentum.

Having said all that . . I have to shout out to Stardock support. Before I joined the team here they rocked and now that I am on the "inside" my respect for them and how they treat their customers has only increased. [e digicons]:thumbsup:[/e]

in fact new customers generate more revenue than existing

That would be true of the "product" area, however not of the "service" area.

If you are selling a product, yes, you will generate more funds through that initial purchase, but if you are providing a service (xbox live, cell phone, internet, cable, etc.) then I think it would be better to focus on the support, and cut down on the marketing.

I think paypal falls more into the "service" area.

actually, i rarely have any trouble understanding people in the indian phone banks...it's the ones located in my local 7-11 that i sometimes have trouble understanding (as joe biden knows, lol).

maybe this wasn't your experience, but i usually find them to be well spoken and well trained on the phone.

but as far as you being a racist is concerned, i'm betting since you freely use terms like "towel head" and the like, that this experince didn't cause anything that wasn't there to begin with. this experience looks more just like an excuse for you to vocalize your pre-determined views.

and btw, those overseas folks aren't workn for 50 cents less or something that trivial. companies usually save about 80% in expenses by doing business there. and i doubt the mountain folk would be doin this work for 2 bucks an hour or less.

No we wouldnt.[e digicons][/e] We have bills just like the rest of yall.

quoting post

So go ahead and call me a racist but I am sick to death of calling the support line of what are ostensibly American companies and being asked all kinds of personally identifying information way beyond what is necessary to answer my specific question by some towel head that can barely speak English.

I tried to call PayPal to figure out why in God’s name they were now requiring a bank account number to “validate” a perfectly good credit card. I don’t think so. No way in hell am I giving anyone my bank account number.

So anyway I end up speaking to Bhagirathy Chattopadhayay or some other such incomprehensible name and she can’t even understand the simplest of questions and can only respond that I should open a PayPal account. Finally after repeating this response to me ten times she realized that I still wasn’t satisfied and said that I could update my “spanding sarces”. What in God’s name is a spanding sarce? I told her that I couldn’t understand her and could she please connect me to someone that spoke English. She reluctantly said she would connect me to a supervisor. While waiting for the supervisor I finally figured out she must have meant spending sources. In the end I gave up waiting for the supervisor. There was little point to it by then. It’s not like I would ever get any kind of satisfactory answer let alone be told how I could open a account without providing bank account information.

Look. I’m sure all of these folks are pleasant, hard working and intelligent. It’s just that they most certainly are not native English speakers and once outside of the litany of the ten most commonly asked questions they have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

Plus I’m sure in this economy that there are Americans throughout the rust belt, Appalachia and many other rural and formerly industrialized parts of the country where you could get the same work done almost as cheaply and it would be far more comprehensible.

So I’ve finally come to the conclusion that I will no longer stand for this kind of support. I will vote the only way that I can which is with my feet.

If this makes me a racist then so be it, I am not knowing.

Yep you are a racist. And an idiot to boot.

Just because someone is expressing their opinion does not make them an idiot. In fact, you are the idiot here.

I hate support too. I don't understand why companies feel the need to be so cheap. There are plenty of people the U.S. who can do support. You don't need to go to the fucking Middle East to find support people. It's the same company values as China. Find cheap, unskilled people to do work instead of good people so you can line your own pockets.

I was on the phone with Gateway support the other day, woman was barely understandable. If there wasn't anyone else in my house at the time I would said "Jesus! Do you even speak English?!"

Really disgusting how cheap companies can be. Really.

I have no doubt Mumble's indulging in non-PC talk 'cause he's good and pissed-off. Apparently, PayPal buy from the lower end of the call center industry in India. The top shops have people with college degrees and better English than a big chunk of my fellow Amurricans, and they work in call centers because they can earn more than they could by working in the fields suited to their degrees. Or at least they used to--the world economy is staggering right now, and I don't read regularly about business in India.

Tridus

reply 2

I'm sick of bad support, period. The focus on most support these days isn't actual support or customer satisfaction, it's on getting rid of you as fast as possible.

All part of the "short term profit at any cost" mentality that companies have these days. It'll lead them to ruin in the end.

Damned right.

Silver_and_Jade_Tears

reply 3

I...Wouldn't it simply be better to cut down in other areas, such as marketing, in order to provide better customer support? Wouldn't word of mouth about an excellent product with even better customer service be more condusive to your business, rather than expensive marketing? ...

Perhaps I am old-fashioned in my thinking though.

Or maybe a bit ahead of your time. Marketing is based on the idea that clever people can use verbal and visual skills to make less clever people do things they would not otherwise do. As far as I can tell, worldwide, folks are less and less interested in being told what to think and do.

Marketing is based on the idea that clever people can use verbal and visual skills to make less clever people do things they would not otherwise do.

No, that is politics.

GeneralEtrius

reply 10

Yep you are a racist. And an idiot to boot.
Just because someone is expressing their opinion does not make them an idiot. In fact, you are the idiot here.

I hate support too. I don't understand why companies feel the need to be so cheap. There are plenty of people the U.S. who can do support. You don't need to go to the fucking Middle East to find support people. It's the same company values as China. Find cheap, unskilled people to do work instead of good people so you can line your own pockets.

I was on the phone with Gateway support the other day, woman was barely understandable. If there wasn't anyone else in my house at the time I would said "Jesus! Do you even speak English?!"

Really disgusting how cheap companies can be. Really.

Oh..I am sorry I didnt realize he was "expressing his opinion" That makes eveything OK.

Mumblefratz-

Folks can sit back all they want and say

"hey look, it's saving the company money to outsource this!"

And, this is absolutely true.

What most people don't realize, unfortunately is that just about ALL jobs can be outsourced, even the ones that require a warm body to do physical work in country.

When it was just factories sending blue collar jobs overseas, no one really cared

"damn lazy unions, get what they deserve!"

We chanted in unison. Nevermind that you can thank unions for that CRAZY thing called the weekend and a living wage (both of which seem to be going the way of the dodo-bird)

Then came call center jobs. Again, a mostly lower middle class service sector of the economy no one really cared to see going.

Now we have the white collar jobs that are starting to go too.

If Stardock so wanted, they could outsource their entire operation overseas.

Not all of it is bad though. In some cases outsourcing has blown up in the company's face one too many times.

Juniper Networks recently moved their call center functions entirely back stateside after their customers repeatedly complained of the service they were getting.

If enough customers complain, or more importantly talk with their wallets, at some point the company will figure out the cons outweigh the pros and move their operations back.

WIllythemailboy

reply 12

... No, that is politics.

No, politics is as old as our species. Marketing is a new trick that the pols didn't start co-opting effectively until around 1960.

What most people don't realize, unfortunately is that just about ALL jobs can be outsourced, even the ones that require a warm body to do physical work in country.

When it was just factories sending blue collar jobs overseas, no one really cared

"damn lazy unions, get what they deserve!"

We chanted in unison. Nevermind that you can thank unions for that CRAZY thing called the weekend and a living wage (both of which seem to be going the way of the dodo-bird)

Then came call center jobs. Again, a mostly lower middle class service sector of the economy no one really cared to see going.

Reminded me of the old poem:

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

If you hate getting support from India/Pakistan. Well..welcome to the sinful world of captialism. After all, it is not customers that comes first, rather the bottom line.

In Wired Magazine, i forgot one of their issue had an article on this, in it it explains that the point of customer service is to get rid of the customer as fast as possible. Well under that mentality, no wonder they find people who can barely speak clear english.

ALL jobs can be outsourced

This is the essence. This country is more and more being seperated into the haves and the have nots. There is no more middle class. Those of us that assumed that a good education along with dedication and hard work is all you need to succeed have been proven wrong.

Unless you have $2 million dollars or so of after tax money earning enough interest to support yourself for the rest of your life then you are a peasant, no better off than a Russian serf of the late 19th century.

We used to have the expectation that each generation would have a better life than the previous generation. However the US has essentially been sold to the highest bidder to line the pockets of the ultra rich. Those to whom a simple $100 million is just not enough, if they have $100 million then they want $200 million. It never ends.

I hope they do a special on Bernie Madoff once he reachs prison. I really do want to see whose "wife" he ends up being.

The problem is that eventually even those that are currently on the top of the pyramid will fall. The CEO's, the doctors, the hedge fund analysts will eventually find no customers when 99% of everyone in this country is reduced to "welcome to walmart" and "do you want fries with that".

So I'm racist. OK, so what. In that case the Japanese, Indians, Pakistani, Koreans, Chinese, German, French, English and every other nationality on this planet are racist as well. Only the US is stupid enough to allow the level of trade imbalance that exists between the US and the Chinese to continue ad infinitum.

Come on guys. It's not bad. It could be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worrse. Like Canadian or something like that

Working in the IT area I hate outsourcing to overseas. Everytime I've seen work done like that (programming), the quality of the final product is not as good as I would hope. Yes it does what was asked for, but is hard to maintain/expand as no thought went into it beyond getting it to the customer.

And yes, many Australians I talk to feel the same way - they hate talking to someone who is reading off a script and cannot handle a curve ball question... I don't think it is racist - it's a comprehension issue. If the two parties cannot understand each other, then successful communication cannot occur...

We used to have the expectation that each generation would have a better life than the previous generation.

You ignore the possibility that this expectation is wrong.

However the US has essentially been sold to the highest bidder to line the pockets of the ultra rich.

And I think this is crap. The US has been undercut by lazy people wanting more than they are worth and business owners actually paying real market prices.

The fact is that the economy *is* global and many in teh US don't want to believe it. Guess what? Your options are going to be more and mroe limited.

It's not a time to complain, it's a time to step up. Offer better service or a lower fee or shut up.

Press 1 -- to have French instructions.

Press 2 -- If you know the phone "station" you want to reach.

(Sub, Press 1-- To leave a message Press 2-- To wait Press # to cycle through the list once again)

Press 3 -- If you want to speak to a specific patient in our hospital.

(sub Press x,y,z, etc)

Press 4 -- If you have an appointment.

(mostly, our offices are closed right now... please call later or Press 1 to leave a message)

Press 5 -- If you need our address and hours of operation.

Press 0 -- To talk to our receptionist.

Plenty more differently managed systems, btw.

Results? Music, fm station, repetitive pubs or specific "messages" (in the above case; please wash your hands before entering the hospital, wear a mask... etc) probably for 5 to 20 minutes at certain times.

48 hours later you may get somebody to return your calls.

Too late, you or someone else dear is already dead.

It's called automated contact with services. Some by government, some by commerce, some by industry, some by cellular devices, some bilingual, some fluent in one language or more.

Please, be patient.

Ironic, pathetic, chaotic.

Unemployment rates climbing.

It's called the back & forth voice recordings of failure to contact when it matters most.

All i have is some flashy red dels that accumulate sales speech, or people that couldn't understand such simple words; Leave your Name, phone Number and a short message, i'll call back as soon as possible.

Press -- delete. Or hang up.

Caller ID?

Trace this -- answer me now or be supervised by no more questions. Cancel this deal. You deserved it.

Yep, i get polls in the form of eMail too -- as a consequence. Want my opinion with that? Sure, you WANT to improve the services... at what price, may i ask. We're paying for 911 help & taxed two times on it at that; most profitable emergency loop ever invented by mobile verifications.

Hello, Knock-Knock-Knock McFly -- anybody home?

No wonder i mute the TeeVee when silence must cover the street noise of hunky-tonky-horny-junky and ambulances or police cars following soon after -- helicopters scanning the waves for exclusivity. Urban fun is spectacular -- it even invades your privacy. We're filming. Smile to the camera.

The problem is not India or Pakistan -- it's the call hitchhikes & the pauses. Bandwidth usage meters or monitoring included.

Press -- 0 for immediate assistance.

Within forty seconds, you're asphyxiated by a fire down the hall in your apartment buildings.

Press -- 7 for luck if you must.

Hack78

reply 19

Come on guys. It's not bad. It could be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worrse. Like Canadian or something like that

Care to explain?

It's true summer here and i feel heated back alive from the local arctic ice age once again this year. We have a vast rainy week ahead anyway.

Nope

So I'm racist. OK, so what. In that case the Japanese, Indians, Pakistani, Koreans, Chinese, German, French, English and every other nationality on this planet are racist as well.

Im not Racist. I hate everybody equally!

I live in Australia, and recently I had to call up a bunch of Customer Support services for different problems i had, all within a short time span.

Funny thing is... alot of the people i spoke to sounded American (or Canadian, wasnt sure), and when i asked them if they were located in America, they said "No, no, im actually in Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane/a few other smaller cities" and i was surprised...

So idn, unless these companies utilise voice modifying technology (which is fairly advanced nowadays) i was actually talking to what sounded like Americans working in Australia... DELL, EA, Apple, even Telstra (phone provider). It was rather pleasant considering I too dislike talking to call centers overseas with a few seconds lag and a bad connection on top of a difficult-to-understand accent to boot.

As far as Racism is concerned, where do you think the generalisations came from? In Australia, there is one particular generalisation about Asians (Chinese especially, but yeah, asians in general) that claims Asians cannot drive. Now, no joke or overexagerating, there is a simply stunning number of asian drivers in Australia who drive dangerously and dont even realise it. In fact, its whenever Asians are close to the road. I was driving back from the train station the other day (which, i might add, is located in the middle of a 98% Asian dominated neighborhood), and there was a car driving in front of me. An Asian woman crossed the 4 lane road (2 inside lanes for driving, 2 outside for parking etc) from the right hand side of the road (remember Australia drives on the left hand side), and was running across the road. She didnt even stop to look for cars and if the guy in front of me hadnt been looking, he would have smacked into her at 60 km/h (which is apparently 37 miles/h). As it stands, he had to slam on the breaks, causing myself to nearly slam into him, and the guy behind me the same.

I understand it, actually. Ive been to China a few times, they live so close together over there, packed in, shored up. So they dont care. When i first went there with my family, we were shocked because people were just running into us, no apology or anything. So after a while my Dad and I turned it into a sport. If we were carrying something, or some person is just too lazy to get out of the way, we'd lay in the shoulder and see who could do the most damage/cause the most havoc. And they didnt even care (well, one guy did, but then he chickened out).

In Australia, there is alot more space, and more... organisation. Aussies like things to run smoothly. So when a car has right of way, it has right of way. The Asians in Australia have a hard time accepting that.

So, racism isnt totally bunk. Sure, you can say that "I'm sure there are some very nice, educated, well mannered muslims in the world." But unfortunately, said 'nice muslims' dont do anything to prevent the more radical terrorist types from ruining the image of the muslim people a a whole.

Ill bring it closer to home. Do you know who i think are the mot racist people on the planet as a people/group/race etc? African-Americans. (Watch, someone is going to get crazy and start 'getting up in my grill'). Honestly. Okay, yes, African-Americans (or blacks, because seriously, their skin is black... get over it) had a shit hard time for many decades due to slavery and un-equal rights and contempt etc etc. I get that. My family is Jewish, i have family in Israel, Russia, the UK and America, i can understand what the blacks went through. But do you really see Jews going on and on and on and on about it? I was watching a movie with my sister the other day. Beauty Shop i think it was called, with Queen Latifah. There is a scene there where Queen and her best friend in the movie are talking about the phrase 'My Nigga'. The boos of the boutique where Q worked was sweedish or something, he was being an asshole and said the name on the front of the building was 'Moniga', and Q interpreted it as him saying My Nigga, when he actually meant Monika. So then Q's best friend (who was white) said "oh, he actually said My Nigga?" and Q said "yeah, oh but shoosh you cant say Nigga thats our word"

WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?

I have respect for "African-Americans" in this instance because they took one of the more widespread icons of their oppression (disdainful use of the word Nigga as an ignorant description of Negroes and all black skinned people, as well as a swear word) and turned it into a descriptor of pride. I think that was a great idea, really. But to use it against non-black people? Including your friends? How racist are you? You are no better than whites a few decades ago.

And it doesnt stop there. The widespread use of the terms White-Boy, White Bread and a dozen others used to insult (or at least provoke) white skinned people. The widespread influence of Black Culture via Music, Movies, Video Games and what not, popularising and desensitising the masses to drug use, possession and use of Firearms or other weapons, disrespectful treatment and extreme objectification of women, glamorising living in Slums, glamorising commiting illegal acts, disrespecting, provoking, ignoring police officers, and a whole host of other items. AND it cant even be moderately controlled or censored because as soon as a white person (including the government or police force) even SNIFFS the wrong way in the direction of a black person, its racism, and targeting, and "we're going back to the days of slavery" free speech and what not.

Now im no prude, i enjoy going out with friends, drinking, meeting girls at parties, swearing etc, but seriously. Calling women bitches and hoes? Glamorising selling drugs to teenagers or pimping out some poor girl to support her drug habit, popping a cap in another crews ass. And when to happens to you, you get upset, like, i didnt do anything to them why did they shoot my brother.

Yes, to an extent i think it was meant as a way to show the world how a very large number of African-Americans grow up in really shitty living conditions... but when they started to glamorise it and market it to the world through music and film, as something to be envied...

But when black people jump up and down, screaming racism and inequality and racial profiling and what not, even when the person in question is actually guilty, i call that racism. Reverse racism, its almost like using it as a shield... oh, you cant charge me, thats racism... or like a Jewish guilt trip...

And its not like they try to suppress this concept of African-Americans. Every other kid (black or white) and their dog wants to be 50-cent or Tupac or some other hot shit rapper, dressing like a delinquent, thinking that jail time is awesome... They all dress in baggy jumpers, (Americans would call them sweaters? tracksuits?) baggy pants, baseball cap worn low over the eyes or a dew cap mirroring those worn in prison worn as a homage and an attempt at intimidating people, jewellery everywhere, the perpetually present shifty looks and the permanent sneer. African-Americans dont like to be profiled or generalised... well, first step is yours mate, stop dressing like an ex-con, stop looking like you are going to shank someone, stop glamorising all the drug use and guns and objectifying women and all that crap, and then the generalisations will stop, because they will no longer have a basis in fact.

Seriously... your very best friend happens to be white... and they cant say the word Nigga...

So, to wrap things up, racism is present, its real, most of the time it isnt as overblown as people think, but it still has basis in fact and that is what should be worried about. Sure, a minority of people in a community actually conform to the stereotypes, but a vocal minority is more noticable than a silent majority.

And I think this is crap. The US has been undercut by lazy people wanting more than they are worth and business owners actually paying real market prices.

I'm not American so I'm not surprisingly a bit more left wing than you.

It isn't about 'lazy' people wanting more than they are worth, if you live in the US the cost of living is amazingly different to some guy in India. Not only that, the quality of life of an Indian worker wouldn't even be allowed in USA, with good reasons. Work life balance? Indians don't even want something like that because they need to work so much that they can afford their life. Safety in the work place? Haha. etc etc.

Basically the rich and even the moderate in America raise the cost of living and then outsource to companies they know can do things cheaper because they don't follow rules that your own country has put in place to protect their work force. And you claim that the amount of poverty you have in USA is because of 'lazy' people? I think that's quite a sad attitude but unfortunately quite typical.