Kudos to impulse, we love it! and don't let the tin foils put you off!

Now... back on topic... I don't like Impulse in it's current incarnation.

So we've run out of "Kudos" for the devs already?

....and how exactly is that "back on topic"? I think maybe you're posting in the wrong thread...

Ha! Easy... I'm not voting with my feet and I'm expecting Impulse to improve. Seems to me that spending my hard earned cash is the ultimate vote for the 'devs'.

Get rid of them both. (as in, SDC and Impulse)

Release a single .exe file to update the program(s) as needed.

Get a clue!

You know, back in the 90's, we did that, and it was chaos- people hated having to search down the downloads for their multiple products. Along came Component Manager and Drengin Network (one for OD and one for Games). People didn't like that because they still had two places that they had to look. Evolution took over and we built SDC to centralize all that is Stardock. People rejoiced and it was good. Then people started complaining because it wasn't robust enough. So, development of Impulse started, and that is where we are now.

We don't like this bullshit!

Can you define "we"? Stardock knows that Impulse needs improvement and we are working to improve it. To say that "we" (as in the majority) don't want a download manager is insane. We will improve Impulse - We won't be getting rid of a download manager. If you don't want to use a download manager, then I suggest not purchasing our products that require it.

"If you don't want to use a download manager, then I suggest not purchasing our products that require it."

I understand you guys are probably really frustrated with all this and I know you are speaking as an individual KarmaGirl and it is your opinion, but I have found that it is often best to not dignify statements like "We don't like this bull****!" with a response. That guy clearly had quite an agressive tone in his post - better to simply avoid it altogether because if someone is ranting in that kind of way, there isn't much point even bothering to justify oneself.

As far as I'm concerned, if people can't use decent language and be polite on a forum, then they shouldn't be using it - just my opinion

I and many others (friends of mine that I know personally) are quite sure that you guys at Stardock are doing your very best - we cannot ask any more of you than your best

. Also, we as customers are not privvy to the inside details of the company, meaning that it is ultimately up to management how they choose to serve the greatest number of people and it is not possible for us to judge your actions and decisions as a company. There have been requests for downloads to be available still, if that's possible logistically then great - everyone happy, if not, then there must be a good reason behind that.

My recommendation is this: avoid responding to people who cannot conduct themselves properly on the forum, if they have a reasonable argument and some evidence then they deserve a response, but only if they conduct themselves properly and politely.

Keep up the good work and it's great to see so many Stardock people reading the forums

I think by "we" he means himself and the other guy who is disatisfied. Out of all the customers stardock has (hasn't sins alone sold over a million copies?)

I personally love the impulse way of doing things, and dislike the single exe way of doing it.

I think by "we" he means himself and the other guy who is disatisfied.

That's funny! I don't care which side of the conversation you're on.

To say that "we" (as in the majority) don't want a download manager is insane.

Do you really believe that? I suspect very strongly that the majority of Stardock customers tolerate a download manager, in large part because the presence of a download manager replaces more draconian and invasive forms of DRM. I know that's the case with me. I don't want a download manager, but if you're going to do something to secure your games I'd rather you did that than use Starforce, or a SecuROM scheme with limited activations. The notion that people actively prefer having to download and run another program to update their software rather than simply patching in the traditional way strikes me as more than a little odd, though.

The notion that people actively prefer having to download and run another program to update their software rather than simply patching in the traditional way strikes me as more than a little odd, though.

Why? It makes little rational sense that the majority of users would prefer to hunt down individual downloadbles for every piece of Stardock software they own, instead of having one manager able to update everything by itself, making it much easier for the user. It has ease of use, convenience going for it - which happens to be the direction consumerism is heading towards more and more. People, in general, don't want to fiddle with lots of little things to get it working properly. They want something that's easy to use and doesn't require a whole lot of effort on their part.

I mean, think of it this way. You have an Object Desktop Plus registration, which is basically a collection of a bunch of different software. Do you want to check the web pages for each piece of software regularly to see if there are updates, or would you rather launch a simple program that checks everything for you and lets you know if there are any updates?

So for me, it's more than a little odd that people would not want a download manager capable of this.

And to me, basing criticism around "But I have to download an additional piece of software" is pretty nonsensical. I can understand not wanting intrusive software that wants to run all the time, or needs to run in order for something to work. But Impulse does neither. You use it when you want to check for updates, and don't have to worry about it any other time. Why such aversion to having to install it? Windows installs more garbage that you can't get rid of and that takes up more resources. It's not as if installing something as small as Impulse is the breaking point of making your PC unmanageable. This argument is completely irrational, and not founded in anything substantive, just essentially "I don't want to" with no good reason for it.

It's like people who refuse to fly because they're afraid of a plane crash, regardless of the fact that flying is regarded as one of the safest modes of transportation. You can show them as many statistics as you want, but they still refuse to step on a plane. Same thing here. Some people just don't like it on the principle of having to install something, regardless of how irrational that is. And there's nothing anyone can do to convince them otherwise. I'm glad Stardock isn't listening to those.

Geez....you guys are so Impulsive! Sorry....had to say that!

I suspect very strongly that the majority of Stardock customers tolerate a download manager, in large part because the presence of a download manager replaces more draconian and invasive forms of DRM.

I'm also in this camp, but I have to say that the ease of use and relative stability/reliability of Stardock's method trump any concerns I might have with installing extra software. Software companies have to do something to protect their rights and SDC/Impulse are very friendly when compared with any other effective method.

I'm still using SDC and will continue that approach until things are worked out with Impulse. Once that happens, I intend to fully embrace Impulse as my preferred download manager. Look at the potential and ease of use. Sure, having no protection at all would be great, but we live in a somewhat less than perfect world.

IMO, Stardock has earned our trust and deserve a measure of patience (perhaps more than I've given) while things get worked out. It's obvious that they're trying and I can't think of a more competent group of programmers to put on the job.

Hi gang,

Karmagirl and I have been tasked with making Impulse more user-friendly and making sure that the major issues people are encountering with it are squashed. I've read through this thread (still need to go through the others) and have gotten several good suggestions from the constructive criticism.

Yarlen, this is probably the first time I feel this way since I've known you - I don't envy you

*hides*

what exactly is the term for the opposite of fanboy anyway

CIRC - calm, intelligent, rational consumer.

I suspect very strongly that the majority of Stardock customers tolerate a download manager, in large part because the presence of a download manager replaces more draconian and invasive forms of DRM. I know that's the case with me. I don't want a download manager, but if you're going to do something to secure your games I'd rather you did that than use Starforce, or a SecuROM scheme with limited activations. The notion that people actively prefer having to download and run another program to update their software rather than simply patching in the traditional way strikes me as more than a little odd, though.

agreed. i much prefer stand-alone downloads and patches to SDC, which is the only download manager i've used. however, it's not really that bad compared to other things out there, and i'll admit that at times i's kind of nice; more than anything it just feels like it takes up space on my system (and i know, hardly any) and adds extra steps (which really still take less time than the old method). but standalone patches are what i like, simple as that.

Do you really believe that? I suspect very strongly that the majority of Stardock customers tolerate a download manager, in large part because the presence of a download manager replaces more draconian and invasive forms of DRM. I know that's the case with me. I don't want a download manager, but if you're going to do something to secure your games I'd rather you did that than use Starforce, or a SecuROM scheme with limited activations. The notion that people actively prefer having to download and run another program to update their software rather than simply patching in the traditional way strikes me as more than a little odd, though.

While that may be the case on games to a degree, on something like MyColors or Object Desktop, a download manager is an absolute necessity from a customer point of view.

Moreover, the future of PC gaming is going to look a lot more like Object Desktop than it does games of the past. In the future, games and their communities will be far more integrated than today where there will be LOTS of content and enhancements to their games. Impulse, for instance, is being designed to support community modding.

In our fantasy strategy game, for example, users will be able to submit their own creatures, buildings, magical items, equipment, tiles, etc. -- all in game and other users will be able opt to make use of this content (or pick and choose which they use) all in game. But behind the scenes it'll be the Impulse Reactor (the back end of Impulse) juggling this. And users who don't want to have to mess around with the hassles we have today of running around websites downloading patches, installing the right mods, etc. will find Impulse to be quite a nice solution.

I just bought avencast, the 13th product from stardock (including 2 expansion packs). I will soon buy unreal tournament package (5 unreal tournament games, if you don't include expansion packs). and probably proorder demigod.

The LAST thing I want to do is make a private directory with all the exe install files, patches, and text files with my own personalized serial number and keep track of them. (which is what a do for download-manager-less programs)
A download manager is a godsend. It tells me which games are intalled, which aren't, and it keeps tracks of all my serials and info. When I just bought avencast it even added it to "my games" automatically. (I clicked "check for application updates" and it showed up).

Talk about convinent.
I actually just asked if there is any chance of getting spacesiege on here. Because the LAST thing I want to do is drive to the store to get it. (and then have to keep my CD... speaking of CD. I just decided to replay warcraft 3. My CDs have degraded and it had a CRC error during file copy. I had to go torrent a copy of my CDs and use my legally purchased serial. This is not an issue with DLC)

While that may be the case on games to a degree, on something like MyColors or Object Desktop, a download manager is an absolute necessity from a customer point of view.

You're selling yourself short there

. You could make us hop around from web page to web page trying to figure out what's what, and I really appreciate the fact that you don't.

In our fantasy strategy game, for example, users will be able to submit their own creatures, buildings, magical items, equipment, tiles, etc. -- all in game and other users will be able opt to make use of this content (or pick and choose which they use) all in game. But behind the scenes it'll be the Impulse Reactor (the back end of Impulse) juggling this. And users who don't want to have to mess around with the hassles we have today of running around websites downloading patches, installing the right mods, etc. will find Impulse to be quite a nice solution.

Unrelated, does this mean you'll allow for customizeable uniforms/faces like I suggested? I'd love to see it mix and match, instead of requiring a lot of art skill, so people can adjust colors and other things without much effort. If you want to see what I mean, rent Soul Calibur 4, and go in the character creator, and see what the options are.

However, if it means every time I load Impulse it takes another 10-20 seconds, that's probably poor coding. I can live with it loading slower when I want to do it, just keep it away from startup.

I'd suggest for that the following ideas
- Make it simple to modmod (OK, Modmaker decided to put the elves in sexy red hakamas/bikinis/cow costumes/whatever, but I like blue better)
- Make it open ended, so people can create new things
- but have a bunch of things pre-defined
- Allow for mix and match parts
- Release that people are going to go for the cutesy/sexy type stuff
- Some QC/moderation as to avoid the Flying Penis Army

I'm an old fogy software engineer who has no problem downloading and installing stand-alone applications/patches/mods/upgrades and was sending for same on floppies from "software libraries" before there was any way to download them - or at least it was usually actually quicker (and a hell of a lot cheaper - UK phone charges anyone) to get them by post

I keep a very trimmed down and clean machine in all other respects. So I recon I would be a prime candidate to be resistant to services like Impulse.

I now have three download manager style software "portals" installed - Steam, Metaboli and Impulse (formerly SDC). I find them extremely convenient and hardly ever go into store to purchase software or even purchase retail versions from the web any more if I can avoid it - I just don't see the point.

About the only thing that rivals a generic DLM approach is built-in automatic updates within the software itself.

However, if it means every time I load Impulse it takes another 10-20 seconds, that's probably poor coding. I can live with it loading slower when I want to do it, just keep it away from startup.

The current internal build of Impusle takes less than a second to load for me. I am not sure when this build is being released but I suspect in the day day or two (I hope).

Moreover, the future of PC gaming is going to look a lot more like Object Desktop than it does games of the past. In the future, games and their communities will be far more integrated than today where there will be LOTS of content and enhancements to their games. Impulse, for instance, is being designed to support community modding.

In our fantasy strategy game, for example, users will be able to submit their own creatures, buildings, magical items, equipment, tiles, etc. -- all in game and other users will be able opt to make use of this content (or pick and choose which they use) all in game. But behind the scenes it'll be the Impulse Reactor (the back end of Impulse) juggling this. And users who don't want to have to mess around with the hassles we have today of running around websites downloading patches, installing the right mods, etc. will find Impulse to be quite a nice solution.

with respect, this is a pretty dower vision of the future you have. for one, i don't necessarily agree with you; the only other example of a game working like this that i've heard of is Spore. but that aside, since when was it okay for developers to focus all their attention on making it "easier" for modders to share their stuff? how many times did i see the SUPERMEGAKILLEVERTHINGINONESLICE SWORD on Oblivion mod sites? point being, i don't want 95% of player content, and what little i do, i'm more than capable of finding myself.

i didn't miss the part where you said the player could pick and chose, but frankly, mods should't sell a game. a well developed game with its own content available upon release, with solid coding and lots of QA and customer support should sell a game. "making things easier" doesn't always make them better. just look at Office 2007.

finally, trying to streamline fan/player content seems like a cheap way out of developing a better game with more variety and better art. but more than anything, i fear this kind of system of content sharing will ultimately be more of a detriment to modders than a boon, because the sharing of this content has to be supported by your client backend, the things that can be modded this way are ultimately bound by the limits of your own creativity, vision and capability.

of course i might not understand the way this works as you do, and i might be blowing it out of proportion. but i tend to be more a libertarian with my toys. Lego never prevented me from shotting bottle rockets at my castles, so it's frustrating that stardock would control the way i receive and trade content.

Sure, Impulse is not perfect yet, but if i compare it to the other "content managers" i've used, it's by far the least buggy of them all at release.

And, as stated above, you only need to use it if you want to check for an update or buy something from the store.

And it look good

Keep up the good work!

I suspect (Or at least hope) that mods such as total conversions are listed separately from mods that just change a bit of gameplay. And both are listed separately from mods that change the graphics. And that all are listed separately from the standard player created content such as the SUPERMEGAKILLEVERTHINGINONESLICE SWORD.

Also, I suspect (And expect) that most mods will still have their own threads/sites as they do now. Just that you'll be able to download them from Impulse rather than a separate site.

with respect, this is a pretty dower vision of the future you have. for one, i don't necessarily agree with you; the only other example of a game working like this that i've heard of is Spore. but that aside, since when was it okay for developers to focus all their attention on making it "easier" for modders to share their stuff? how many times did i see the SUPERMEGAKILLEVERTHINGINONESLICE SWORD on Oblivion mod sites? point being, i don't want 95% of player content, and what little i do, i'm more than capable of finding myself.

i didn't miss the part where you said the player could pick and chose, but frankly, mods should't sell a game. a well developed game with its own content available upon release, with solid coding and lots of QA and customer support should sell a game. "making things easier" doesn't always make them better. just look at Office 2007.

finally, trying to streamline fan/player content seems like a cheap way out of developing a better game with more variety and better art. but more than anything, i fear this kind of system of content sharing will ultimately be more of a detriment to modders than a boon, because the sharing of this content has to be supported by your client backend, the things that can be modded this way are ultimately bound by the limits of your own creativity, vision and capability.

of course i might not understand the way this works as you do, and i might be blowing it out of proportion. but i tend to be more a libertarian with my toys. Lego never prevented me from shotting bottle rockets at my castles, so it's frustrating that stardock would control the way i receive and trade content.

Our non-game software has worked this way for years with good success. Programs like WindowBlinds, DeskScapes, IconPackager, etc. have all done extremely well with user made additonal content made by users and downloaded from us.

Similarly, Galactic Civilizations II has worked the same way with good effects. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find GalCiv players who thought we "cheaped out" by letting people design their own ships in-game (or submit their ship designs on-line).

There's nothing stopping someone from making their own mods and putting them up on a website.

But it's probably a pretty good chance that if you feel that strongly that you won't be purchasing our future games. As far as I'm concerned, more community participation is the future of PC gaming. That's certainly the direction I'd like to see it go because it's more fun. User created content extends the lifespan of a game dramatically.

As far as I'm concerned, more community participation is the future of PC gaming. That's certainly the direction I'd like to see it go because it's more fun. User created content extends the lifespan of a game dramatically.

For those who doubt that....check out the Various driving sims out there...particularly GTR/GTR2 and rFactor.

GTR came out with about a dozen tracks and a similar number of cars. User input added dramatically to that as various other racing sims' tracks were ported/adapted, etc.

I currently have around 120 circuits and can now drive Aussie V8 Supercars around Monaco...or Formula One cars around Bathurst....[both recipes for disaster, btw] and all sorts of strange alternatives.

People [including myself] skinned the game interfaces as well. Even the physics of the vehicles can be altered [beyond in-game settings].

Frogboy's 100% correct about the 'future of PC gaming'. Heavens...I spent eventually more time enhancing the game through these 'expansions' than I actually did playing the thing...